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[smigl]

smigl, i što ti je onda nejasno? Problem je u tome što ti sve ovo ne predstavljaš kao svoje mišljenje, već govoriš da smo mi zastarjeli, glupavi i nostalgični jer volimo SP. Što je glupavo.

I pazi, ti mene tjeraš iz topika.

I poruka za sve slicne kao sto si ti : AKO VAS NE ZANIMA MP KOJI KURAC RADITE U SP VS MP TOPICU??? kolektivno svi zuriti u sunce dok oci ne ispadnu

Ako tebe ne zanima SP što radiš u SP VS MP topiku?

kad sam rekao da me ne zanima sp? naravno da me zanima i naravno da bi htio da AI postane slican covjeku i da pruza izazov dostojan protivnika, da ima super pricu u koju se mozes uziviti, da ima odlican setting i da grafika rula... (naravno da uz to daje opciju coop.a s frendom ofc)... nisam ja nikad rekao da me sp ne zanima i naravno da cu odigrati neki kvalitetan naslov.. kazem samo da je sp naslova sve manje, mp igre nisu ono sto su bile u doba quake.a cs.a i ut.a postaju tocno ono sto meni super odgovara... sp prica ugodjaj i setting + coop ili mass mp... jednostavno u nedostatku onoga sto mene privlaci i igrama sam se bez imalo problema okrenuo za mp... ja nikad nisam rekao da ste vi kreteni sto igrate sp nego pokusavam razumijeti cemu takva tvrdoglavost i opiranje necemo sto je jasno kao dan i noc?

[Đester]

 :tired:

Al stvarno ga drobiš

[dibek]

Zadnja recenica: Jesi li ikad cuo za subjektivnost?

Ostatak posta nisam razumio al valjda nije nesto pametan.

[Wyzard]

dobro pa sam ti ja nabrojao nekoliko kvalitetnih sp rpg-ova (o njima je riječ, ali eto sad si očito prešao na čitav sp bez obzira na žanr), a ti i dalje tvrdiš da je više MP igara i da je to jasno kao dan i noć, čak iako ti nemožeš nabrojat pet MMO igara od kojih dvije praktički nisu stare po nekoliko godina.

[depresija]

Gle, lik je negdje rekao da se nada da SOTC ima MP da bi igra tako onda bila bolja.
O čemu vi raspravljate više :tired:

[Psajdak]

The Japanese RPG is now being derided not only as an exercise in guiding a party of overwrought adolescents around a clichéd science-fantasy world, but also as a sham RPG “more akin to an adventure game.”

An editorial published on a western gaming site and quickly finding its way back to the Japanese Internet dissects the term “RPG,” finding that the Japanese version is now something quite different:

    The purest of RPGs in computer gaming are titles such as Elite. You can role play as a trader, a pirate, a bounty hunter, a bastard, or whatever.

    With the absence of a structured story or any real exposition, the player is invited to use their imagination and the game environment to make up and enact the player-directed narrative and continue it with their in-game decisions, which is continually reinforced and progressed by the game outputs. The player creates a part of the fiction themselves within the playground of the game world.

    In the same vein, MMORPGS follow this concept. They grant a great deal of liberty to the player and allow them a lot of freedom over the control, appearance, actions and fiction of their avatar.

    I think that most Western RPGs are correctly classified so, too. Planescape, Fable, Fallout and Mass Effect all adapt significantly to the inputs the player makes and subsequently create a tailored experience for each player based upon the actions they take.

    There are some games that appear to offer everything that an RPG requires, such as Red Dead Redemption. You are granted relative freedom and can make John Marston be a hunter, a merchant, an asshole or a saint.

    But ultimately, if you want to progress through the game and access new areas, you must engage in the main missions. Although there is a degree of superficial choice (and thusly “role play”) in these, you cannot really change anything of significance.

    Players will interpret their characters differently from one another; much like readers will use their imagination to perceive a protagonist in a book, for example.

    However, my version of John Marston, a shrewd, unforgiving and untrusting former outlaw is all well and good whilst I’m controlling things, but when the story, mission and cut scenes conspire to make John do things I would never want to do (be foolish enough to trust character X, when for me, John would never have fallen for such an overt trap), it ruins the whole point of the role-playing dynamic.

    Therefore, Red Dead Redemption is definitely not a RPG; it’s something else.

    [...]

    Similarly, what many consider to be true RPG titles, like Final Fantasy, Skies of Arcadia and Dragon Quest do not adhere to this notion of what constitutes an RPG. Somehow over the past few decades, the term RPG is strongly associated with features such as turn-based combat, fantasy settings, inventory screens, upgrade trees, fighting parties and enemy stats.

    Oddly, very few of these types of RPG (most commonly labeled as a JRPG) actually include the key role-playing features.

    Cut scenes occur with no player input. Players have relatively little control over dialogue trees.The player merely exists to advance the inevitable progression of the character, and consequently each player will come away with a very similar experience. The game is therefore didactic in its presentation of the controllable character.

    The Persona series is one of the few that bucks the trend, allowing the player to choose how they interact with characters, making those relationships an important part of the gameplay and story.

    [...]

    So basically JRPGs have been mislabeled and are, in essence, no different to the majority of action/adventure games in terms of form. It’s only the presentation that differs. Red Dead Redemption, Grand Theft Auto and BioShock all present a number of role-playing features, from choice-making and freedom to combat upgrades and visual customisation, yet all three are lacking in true role play.

    There is no overall, coherent scope to unite these features together to allow the player to impose their own mind upon the character, to mold it into something personal to the player. Of course I’m not saying this is a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination, and the cut scenes, stories and characters would not be as fantastic as they are without the careful dilution of the RPG elements.

    Nevertheless, JRPGs follow this formula precisely. Although they offer role-playing opportunities on some levels, ultimately the story and form is too narrow and scripted for the games to be considered RPGs at all. Who better to summarize the argument than Daniel Erickson of the RPG experts, BioWare:

    “You can put a ‘J’ in front of it, but it’s not an RPG. You don’t make any choices, you don’t create a character, you don’t live your character. I don’t know what those are – adventure games maybe? – but they’re not RPGs.”

Bioware have been amongst the most dismissive but a number of western developers now seem to think similarly, and even some Japanese are adopting the view – in this view, the increasingly unfashionable JRPG is nothing more than a rather hackneyed stat-based dungeon crawler.

Western gamers asking why it is the characters in Japanese RPGs seem always to consist of a party of children have sparked an interesting set of responses from Japanese gamers.

2ch’s response to the question after it was translated and posted in a thread is instructive:

    I’d like to pose a question in return – why is it western games are packed with muscle bound beefcakes?

    Isn’t it just because games are for children?

    It’s probably a difference in the premium market segments – how many Japanese would buy them with an old guy as the protagonist? Without children and adult NEETs buying them, their sales in Japan would likely not be good.

    The west = as close to realistic as possible
    Japan = as far away from realistic as possible

    Visually speaking, aren’t young boys and girls better? I don’t want to play an RPG with nothing but middle-aged old guys in my party.

    In Japan, adults don’t play them. They’re just a product, made for children by adults. For exploiting children, we could say. In Japan recently we are seeing more adult children, and there are adults playing them, but unlike Europe adults don’t normally play them. So it’s really the foreigners who are childish.

    What the hell are “adult children”?

    It’s probably just that over there fighting is not seen as something children should be doing. Also, if the hero isn’t 14-15 he can’t really be dating a girl of that age… perhaps that has something to do with it.

    Because it’s easier to empathise with kids.

    So why are all the western game characters totally ripped?

    “Overseas gamers” < Aren’t there people from a variety of different countries overseas?

    It’s just a difference in demographics. These games are for people in school. It’s no wonder they have protagonists the same age. When you’re an adult you don’t have the time or energy for games.

    So why has Metal Gear, with all its old guys, sold well in Japan?

    I don’t know about America, but in Japan you get the most freedom in your life from middle school to university.

    Perhaps it’s because children and adults are much more clearly delineated overseas?

    This isn’t really limited to RPGs – it’s the same with anime.

    When I was a kid I always wondered why Japanese robot anime ace pilots were all kids…

    This is not something I want to be told by a bunch of guys whose games are packed with bikini warrioresses.

    Japanese games are aimed at children, but overseas a lot of people keep playing them even into adulthood.

    Games are something children play, so the protagonists are children. Portraying their growth is a common story theme.

    In Japan and overseas, if you put games or anime out for children you’ll get adults buying them too. There seem to be a lot of them overseas actually…

    In the west they seem to think children entering into danger is a problematic subject, and not all are comfortable with it. On the other hand, in Japan having adults engaged in martial adventures is something people are uncomfortable about. Japanese tend to be distrustful of ideals of “righteousness” – often it is the villains who are pursuing ideals in RPGs. Basically Japanese prefer green protagonists in tales of empathy.

    JRPGs are aimed at children, that’s all.

    Anime style characters all end up looking like loli anyway.

    Somebody in the original post said a Japanese person told him “highschool is the best time of your life for a Japanese.” I think this may be it. Japanese seem to think something important is lost when you grow up, like they worship a sort of childhood innocence. As a result JRPG protagonists are mostly youths.
    On the other hand, overseas becoming older is more like “levelling up” and getting access to more experience and status. We could even say the western view has a “dream” – life still progresses and improves after childhood.

    I don’t want to hear this from people whose games consist of a procession of muscle-bound gorillas.

Apparently a significant proportion of Japanese still view games as an entertainment medium for children.

With the average salaryman forced to work long hours and to turn much of his leisure time over to his company, it is interesting to speculate whether this is having an effect on the inability of Japanese publishers to make much headway into the mainstream of adult gamers overseas.

Censorship decisions made in Japan seem to indicate console publishers are very uncomfortable with marketing games covering more mature themes in Japan, and whilst the “mature gamer” is a cherished demographic overseas, in Japan it seems to be considered an inconvenient niche market (given the dismal sales of western blockbusters in Japan, this may well be a realistic asssessment however).

Japanese RPG developers (and for that matter, anime studios) might well find dumping their endless succession of adolescent casts and school settings has a positive effect on their increasingly tarnished reputation for originality overseas, although with most of the major Japanese RPG franchises having become the Japanese equivalent of EA Sports titles any significant change now seems unlikely.

Sankaku Complex

[smigl]

Osobno od japanskih igara me bas gura taj djeciji stil i toliko puno efekata, svoje likove volim "zrele" :) slazem se s vecinom stvari samo mi nije jasno zasto taj tekst ide u ovu temu?